Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

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Viviyana
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Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Viviyana » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:16 am

** A precisely written letter, copies hung on notice boards through-out the land**

Good people of Valorn,

For as long as we can remember we have treated other sentient peoples as enemies. We hunt them in their homes and kill them, often for no more than a handful of coins. We strip their corpses of armor, or worse, make armor from them.

It is becoming increasingly evident that prior to the Fall of the Golden Age we lived in peace with at least two of these peoples. In fact, it is theorized by some historians that the gremlins worked alongside the ancient technologists from the Golden Ages, and that we traded goods with the Sea Dwellers. The rise of Balthazar, of human origin (as far as we know), and a war of human making brought an end to this and shattered the world in a way that affected all races.

The gremlins, whose history perhaps holds the key to so much of our technology, now scrape out an existence, holed up in a tree or shacks that we regularly invade to take from them what few possessions they have. Some may argue that they invade our towns and steal from us as well. These raids are rare, however, and we feel that to visit genocide upon a people in retaliation for their desperate thievery is a vast overreaction.

Likewise, none who have walked the halls of the Sea Dwellers can deny that they are civilized beings with temples, culture and social structure. They are fierce opponents indeed, however they could also make a fierce ally in whatever may lay ahead. We believe that with a lessening of hostilities and an effort to find common ground we could end the silent war between our peoples.

The giants sealed their gates long ago, some speculate that it was in face of the threat that humans brought upon the land. And now, many wonder why it is that the negotiations to open them once more takes so long, even as we are enemies with every other race upon this land. Why would they expect different treatment from us?

In this new age, as we defeat the greatest darkness we have known, is it not a time to seek peace with those whom we once called allies?


If you agree, please help us in spreading the concept to those new (and old) in the land. It is possible to train and even gain one's profession without killing gremlins and dwellers.

Respectfully,

Synvasti, Shadow, Ellyana and Viviyana.
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krystoff
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby krystoff » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:15 am

*Sighs and rubs his temples as he reads the letter* Thank you four for this letter. Speaking as one who persues all that would add coin to my pocket, I must put my greed aside and agree. While I'll admit I've more to do, I can say I've done some light research. Those we might call "demons", monsters, or troublesome beasts even, may be nothing more than mishaps of our past trying to live their lives in peace. Brisingr touched on this in conversation with me, as did some things I've read in RoK's library. *Sighs* I think it's time we think first, and maybe study even, rather than charge in somewhere, hacking and slashing! What is the result of our reckless warmongering going to lead to?
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Cody F
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Cody F » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:17 pm

I will be sure to make a conscious effort to talk about other options with people more about these things, thank you for sharing that letter.

Course you already knew I was on your side :P

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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Cenny » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:04 pm

I should like for the strength of such an endeavor, friend. I would to see such succeed.
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Ellyana Lilli
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Ellyana Lilli » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:11 pm

Makes me happy and grateful to see others support on this.

One way everyone can help who supports this cause is to spread word so new adventures know that there are other ways to gain their profession - and all it takes is a bit of patience by waiting to gain their chosen profession through the master trainer at a slightly higher level as opposed to harming the sea dwellers for the death scepter at a lower level.

It is one way everyone can help and the art of patience is something we can all benefit from. Many of us who have our professions know how much patience is needed to learn certain aspects of each profession, so can never start working on patience too soon =)
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby aryana_moonsong » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:18 pm

Thanks for sharing this Viv! I never thought about it and over the many cycles, I think i has just become second nature for young ones to go after the sea dwellers and us as mentors and sponsors never really thought to tell them about the other options because we were all so set in our ways.

But change is always a good thing and I for one will certainly make sure to talk to all those I can about this.
*grins roguishly* Oh I just love being a rogue...dark corners, slipping through the shadows...*gets distracted suddenly by something bright and sparkly* and...SHINIES!!! *pounces on it and looks around* My...shiny...*pets the shiny*

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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Kade Fallingstar » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:45 pm

This seems a bit ridiculous to me and I vow to continue slaying that which stands in my way or threatens our towns. Gremlins have been long known to raid our markets, Sea Dwellers have long since been a bane to Branishor. These creatures aided our greatest enemy for longer than I can remember. We invade these creatures nests - not homes. We do our best to get rid of infestations of raiding monsters, not promote their growth. This letter in fact concerns me as to which side some people are now aligning themselves with!

Who decides which creatures are sentient and which are not? Are the bears and wolves not in their home in the forest? Do they raid? How about Guardians we hunt for the crystals we need? Why are not the pirate and bandits receiving the same protections? For that matter why fight any of it at all? Perhaps we should just continue our retreat back to our towns and never explore at all?

I am standing firm in /my/ commitment to protect our roads and towns and especially our markets. If a creature of any race decides to block your path leaving fight or retreat as the only options, I see that as hostility and am more than happy to send the offending creature to whatever afterlife it believes in.
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krystoff
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby krystoff » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:01 pm

You make a good point, Kade. It is a thin line. For instance did the gremlins aid? Or were they bullied? I've never seen the sea dwellers raid, but did need the scepter...
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Kairiel Bosburn » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:03 pm

Whatever our ancestors may have thought or done or known, I have never known these creatures as allies. While I'd grant that gremlins may be out for their own, I have yet to learn of any sign it is possible to broker peace with them. I judge none who defend merchant livelihoods from their invasions, eh? If the potential for peace with them is possible, I've no full qualms. If.

Dwellers, on the other hand, I've no interest in sharing peace with. Their haunting of their halls with our dead for defenders is despicable in a manner I've seen only shared by demonkind. Call it practical if you'd like - I know and get that some would - but I've no interest in sharing any fires with things comfortable lurking among the suffered and debased dead of any species.
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Viviyana » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:22 am

Of course we are not saying we should not defend our homes if attacked. There is a very real difference in defending a raid on one of our towns, and hunting and farming a person in their home. These are not bears and wolves we deal with, but peoples. We cut through the gremlins with a quick thrust of our sword in pursuit of loot, sometimes killing hundreds in a few marc's time. We enter their abodes and leave their corpses sprawled before the blueprints they draw and the letters they write. If they try to advance their culture through their tinkering we are quick to grind them back down under our heel. Will this same belief that we have a right to trespass in any corner of Valon and a right to slaughter any who seek to defend their homes when we do (or as some would put it "stand in our way") govern us if the giants open their gates? If so, I pray for their sake that they never do.

I have had gremlins come raiding that abandoned their quest for the markets in favor of food. I have seen them snatch up burgers like plat and run home to their squalid tree. Poverty and desperation can bring a person to many acts, thievery among them. And we continue to assure that they remain in this fallen state by cutting through them as casually as one would hunt crows. Do we really fear them so much that we seek to keep them in a constant state of abjection? Do we really consider these former assistants to our past technology so very far below us that we place them in the same category as beasts? Is our arrogance that great?

As to the dwellers, they have been our enemies for longer than any alive can remember, yet we know very little of them. Branishor's research has failed to establish any alliance between them and Balthazar. The ties between them and the dead are also unknown. Perhaps they control our drowned, or perhaps the drowned simply haunt their halls. An outsider might argue we keep our rotting dead locked in darkness with their moans beneath our town and sacrifice initiates to them. I am not saying we underestimate them, I am not saying we stand by and allow them to invade our towns. They are not an enemy to be dismissed and even now might be organizing their trained fighting force to come against us.

What I am saying is that we have a narrow window of a chance to again seek an alliance with the Dwellers as our ancestors attempted hundreds of years ago. That we seek a lessening of hostilities with them. That we stop making an act of war upon them an initiation right for those seeking a profession. And if they do not respond in kind, then the war can drag on for more endless cycles.
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Kade Fallingstar » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:29 am

Viviyana wrote:Of course we are not saying we should not defend our homes if attacked. There is a very real difference in defending a raid on one of our towns, and hunting and farming a person in their home. These are not bears and wolves we deal with, but peoples.


Wrong these are creatures, not people. Clearing them out helps reduce their numbers with the intention there will be less to raid. Again, not their homes but their lairs and nests. Clearing them out of these nests and lairs is the equivalent to clearing out an infestation.

Viviyana wrote:We cut through the gremlins with a quick thrust of our sword in pursuit of loot, sometimes killing hundreds in a few marc's time. We enter their abodes and leave their corpses sprawled before the blueprints they draw and the letters they write. If they try to advance their culture through their tinkering we are quick to grind them back down under our heel. Will this same belief that we have a right to trespass in any corner of Valon and a right to slaughter any who seek to defend their homes when we do (or as some would put it "stand in our way") govern us if the giants open their gates? If so, I pray for their sake that they never do.


A quick thrust of a sword? I recall once it took much more than a quick thrust, but glad removing these vermin has gotten easier. They seem more than happy to thrust their dirty daggers at us. Regarding blueprints...probably stolen, like much of what they carry. They do like to loot our markets, who knows what other places they have looted. And allowing them to advance their culture? What culture exactly? Do they host festivals and pray to the gods? I think not. No evidence of any actual culture has ever been given with any certainty and nothing in print that I have found. Only theory and conjecture at best.

Here are a few helpful excerpts from the HSV Tome of the Gremlins

"Gremlins are a diminutive, monstrous, humanoid race of Valorn who reside in densely-populated tribes close to human settlements from whom they steal and scavenge."

"Gremlins form squabbling and chaotic societies in abandoned places, expanding them as suits their needs without foresight."

"Some scholars believe that the gremlins of today are the degenerated descendants of creatures that served cooperatively alongside Golden Age technologists as assistants, gofers, and mechanics."

"any spirit of collaboration that may have existed seems to be lost forever in the fall of the Golden Age. Whether twisted by demonic influence to their current state, or reverted to a baser nature in absence of the influence of human ensorcellment, or merely vengeful for past subjugation, gremlins have become a bitter foe indeed, and one surely worthy of a wide berth for those not trained in combat."


Viviyana wrote:I have had gremlins come raiding that abandoned their quest for the markets in favor of food. I have seen them snatch up burgers like plat and run home to their squalid tree. Poverty and desperation can bring a person to many acts, thievery among them. And we continue to assure that they remain in this fallen state by cutting through them as casually as one would hunt crows. Do we really fear them so much that we seek to keep them in a constant state of abjection? Do we really consider these former assistants to our past technology so very far below us that we place them in the same category as beasts? Is our arrogance that great?


"Gremlins are a diminutive, monstrous, humanoid race of Valorn who reside in densely-populated tribes close to human settlements from whom they steal and scavenge."

I have seen them take much...MUCH greater objects of value. I have also seen them take lives. All those poor initiates who were felled much to early in their young lives by the vicious and dirty blades of those nasty creatures. Fear them? No, but that changes not the need to dispatch them as you would any other foul creature. I'd sooner give leeway to the bears and wolves who are just animals and acting out of instinct. Offering these creatures any sort of sympathy toward creatures we are tasked to dispatch seems to me a treasonous act. When did we start caring more for the creatures who slay our poor initiates then poor initiates who are constantly being killed by those nasty creatures.


Viviyana wrote:As to the dwellers, they have been our enemies for longer than any alive can remember, yet we know very little of them. Branishor's research has failed to establish any alliance between them and Balthazar. The ties between them and the dead are also unknown. Perhaps they control our drowned, or perhaps the drowned simply haunt their halls. An outsider might argue we keep our rotting dead locked in darkness with their moans beneath our town and sacrifice initiates to them. I am not saying we underestimate them, I am not saying we stand by and allow them to invade our towns. They are not an enemy to be dismissed and even now might be organizing their trained fighting force to come against us.

What I am saying is that we have a narrow window of a chance to again seek an alliance with the Dwellers as our ancestors attempted hundreds of years ago. That we seek a lessening of hostilities with them. That we stop making an act of war upon them an initiation right for those seeking a profession. And if they do not respond in kind, then the war can drag on for more endless cycles.


I'm not even going to bother touching the Dweller aspect. Especially after hearing Kai's testimonial. I mean... dead humans raised to guard their halls? Despicable is being kind! I knew they were bad after all the deaths of our defenders trying to fight them back, but wow! the level of dark magic used to reanimate the dead is pretty concerning to say the least.
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby RETIRED FROM DG » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:23 am

To seek peace with creatures such as these is akin to offering a starving wolf your own child simply because it appears lonely. As one who has recently done battle with these creatures I can say to seek peace is futile. You seek peace because you are seeing the world through your eyes and not seeing it through theirs. They do not hold our values, they do not seek to enlighten themselves as we do. They seek simply to survive and take what they can from those around them. I admit I have not been in these lands long yet but to see intelligent people contriving such ideas is disheartening. Perhaps everyone is weary and seeks to rest on their laurels waiting for the next enemy to reveal itself or perhaps by letting these creatures be and thrive they can become this lands next enemy and at least we can know what we face? Now is not the time to sit back and let our enemies thrive. Now is the time to put an end to them once and for all when everyone's attention can be focused to the task.

Pretty words and noble ideas do not bring peace. It is the blood of the soldiers upon which peace is built so do not put away this lands warriors but instead allow them to do that which is needed without hindrance or condemnation.
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Cody F
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Cody F » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:29 am

The fact that spilling blood is the only way that people can see peace ever happening is what is disheartening here, not people trying to think of peaceful ways to end conflicts that personally some of us are tired of fighting.

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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Kade Fallingstar » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:45 am

Peace can only be accomplished when both parties are willing. Time has already proven that is not possible. However, if your too tired to continue fighting the good fight, feel free to hang up your weapons.
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Cody F
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Cody F » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:50 am

Seriously? I don't even KNOW what to say to that...just seriously?

Think I've more then proven I'm not to TIRED to fight the good fight, so my weapons will stay right where they are thanks.

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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Kade Fallingstar » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:52 am

Cody F wrote:...personally some of us are tired of fighting.
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Cody F
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Cody F » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:57 am

I'm very much aware of what I said thanks....take that in whatever context you like if it helps you feel better. I'll fight as long as I have to as hard as I have to make no mistake but that does not mean I can't want to find other peaceful solutions.

So whatever, that was my opinion and I shall leave it at that.

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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby krystoff » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:45 am

cody, your point is understood. Take this point, if you will, from one who used to only see treasure as all that glitters. Sometimes we need tod study first. For example, the gremlins are indeed questionable. Their greed is ravenous and unsatisfyable. I've only found one with what seems to be a true purpose outside of its own existence. The Sea Dwellers, on the other hand, have abilities of creating homes of wondrous beauty! Walk among the sea cabes! Once I walked in there showing no threat, they left me be, and I was able to see just how intelligent they are! We must choose our battles carefully, lest we become no better than a murdering demon bent on selfish destruction and power!
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby Viviyana » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:22 pm

It never seems to fail that every time we start to get a good debate on ideas going, someone comes along to try and bring it down to the level of personal attacks. I really had thought you more skilled than that, Kade. Disappointing. They say a person resorts to personal attacks when they run out of the ability to defend their position. I am sure you can prove that that is not the case in this instance, should you wish.

For as long as we can remember we have had the demon lord and his minions to fight against. We know for a fact that the demons raided the gremlin's tree along with our towns. Again, Branishor's research failed to establish any connection between the Sea Dwellers and the Demons. And, in fact, I have yet to see the Dwellers fighting hand and hand with the demons. Unless Kairiel has information that hasn't been shared with the rest of us, we do not know what their dealings are with death or the dead, simply speculation and conjecture.

It has been many many cycles since the Dwellers last attacked, and again, this does not mean they are complacent. But if there was ever a time to try and stave off a coming war, this is it. They are no mindless creatures, they have a semi-organized fighting force. They study and learn our armor, weapons, and weaknesses. We will have to deal with them one way or another. With their strength and skills they have a possibility of becoming a very real and dangerous threat to us.

The gremlins are, in my observations, very much a neutral force. They are out for their survival. That does not mean that this must always be true. They are a people that have spent the last years of their existence at the bottom of the ladder of racial castes why not attempt to establish a relationship? Why not see if such is possible? They aided us once, why not see if such is possible again?

A cycle ago we accomplished something that was thought impossible. We killed Balthazar. It is easy to go about our turns and not think of the overall implications his death, and the lifting of that oppression brings. But to do so is folly. If we can assume they were under the same constriction of time and resources that we were, and that those resources are now freed, then both the Gremlins and Dwellers (as well as the other races of Valorn) will need addressed.

This debate is about a differing of opinion in how two of those races should be handled. Are we to eagerly jump from one great and everlasting war to the next, without even attempting peace? Shall we send more and more people against the gremlins to compensate for the demons that no longer slaughter them along side us? To cull them out? Or shall we try, in this one sliver of time before this new world of our's ways are set, to lessen hostilities and try for more peaceful relationships?
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Re: Letter on Gremlins and Dwellers

Postby krystoff » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:38 pm

Viv, I must agree.. While I am still learning who can act civilized and who cannot, I have noticed people going about as if all is well! We killed Balthazar! But have we forgotten the walk to Miranda's temple!? All is well now, but there is an evil coming! We do not know when! Would it not make sense to be prepared? And would it also not make sense to have as many allies as we can muster??
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