Seeking to Form Expedition

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Brisingr Blaze
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Brisingr Blaze » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:57 am

Valya wrote:this was on another thread - my take away was that by general consensus educated characters would be able to read Latin. Pretty sure Joyfire qualifies.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13727&p=118525&hilit=latin#p118525


Assuming since Admin didn't give a 'ruling'... that would make valid sense.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Bebhinn » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:13 am

Dabria wrote:((School did too good job on me! I knew what it meant before I even got to Joyfire's definition! Stupid Latin lessons!))


Must be an 'over the pond thing' being forced to study 5 years of Latin at school !
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Hojo Musachi » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:16 pm

Brisingr Blaze wrote:
joyfire wrote:looked that up, found it fitting. Usque ad finem- translation= Until the very end.


((Lately all the Latin that has surfaced within the game has been a very interesting ooc learning experience, but not fully sure how to take it IC. Should it be considered a frm of old Valornian, thus impossible to translate IG? Like with Malchor and a certain book. Learned NPC's.))


I'm still wondering that myself!
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Brisingr Blaze » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:12 pm

Hojo Musachi wrote:
Brisingr Blaze wrote:
joyfire wrote:looked that up, found it fitting. Usque ad finem- translation= Until the very end.


((Lately all the Latin that has surfaced within the game has been a very interesting ooc learning experience, but not fully sure how to take it IC. Should it be considered a frm of old Valornian, thus impossible to translate IG? Like with Malchor and a certain book. Learned NPC's.))


I'm still wondering that myself!


There's what Valya posted but.. just seems to me like it'd fall under something from around the time of the Golden Age. Like what would've been in that book we found that an NPC had to translate. So is Golden Age Valornian, Latin or was Latin a different varient that mages of the time used? Just seems odd no matter how learned our characters are that they could A) translate something from a Gravestone dating the Golden Age (Latin) and b) translate the fountain (Latin) elsewhere that least dates back to the possible height of power of the Ryn people thus Golden Age.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Viviyana » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:09 pm

I always assumed there was more than one language floating around in the golden ages, there had been four separate realms just among the humans. I believe that NPC you were talking about, Bris, had even said something along the lines of the object being written in a very rare language. I fail to see why admin would put language that CAN be translated in if they didn't want our characters to have a way of understanding it to some extent. Really, how else would they write that out in a description? "There are ancient words written on this tomb in a form of Golden Age Valornian that some might understand that translates into "Until the End."" I think it much more engaging to not only put the Latin flair in there but also make us do some research (unless you are Dabria). There are other writings where it is simply implied as being written in a language we don't understand.

In my mind the language represented in game with Latin is a base for Valornian common language, a bit like Latin is in RL. Educated folks can decipher it, some words sound like words we use in current times, etc. As for the more complex languages, or those that might have died out completely except in certain closed groups, we have no way of understanding them without an NPC's help.

As for the survival of the language from the Golden Age, I again correlate that to RL. Latin survived, as did many ancient dialects.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Lavender » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:27 pm

Given my characters backgrounds not sure Joy herself would have been educated enough to have read that. Out of my girls, Lavender, Leah, and Holly would be the only ones with the education to read it. That was purely ooc. I myself can not read latin, I can do english and sign language and that is it. I give thanks to google for the translation. LOL
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Isoyami » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:58 pm

((I'm just waiting for them to turn "'How many Romans?" Into "How many adventurers?" ))
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Hojo Musachi » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:03 pm

The question I have (and I think Bris does as well) is how we determine who those educated people are. We don't have universities dotted around the place, we have settlements who learnt the basics to survive and trade.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Viviyana » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:09 pm

We have Branishor and a historic society that produces tomes. I guess I have always imagined Valorn as more sophisticated than primitive. So envisioned teachers and tutors available.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Brisingr Blaze » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:21 pm

Hojo Musachi wrote:The question I have (and I think Bris does as well) is how we determine who those educated people are. We don't have universities dotted around the place, we have settlements who learnt the basics to survive and trade.


Basically this, yes.

And in response to Viv, I wouldn't call Valorn primitive... but when compared side by side to what we know of the Golden Age.. then I would venture primitive as a descriptive for it.

I mean, yes we have Branishor and the HSoV but they can be rather exclusive. Not to say that language was wiped out, but doesn't seem like something that would be easy. ie pulling up goggle and getting the translation in minutes or seconds if your a walking Dab (heh).

Like with the new portal spell(s) ig, I play it off as still tripping over the words due to where it goes. I think the incantation would be similar in nature to the words we're talking about versus the older portal locations and words we'd recognize thus making it easier.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Hojo Musachi » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:28 pm

I had always imagined the end of the golden age as the equivalent of: WW2 kicking off, the collapse of the Roman Empire, y2k being as bad as predicted, the black death and every form of natural distance hitting at once.

So I figured those who lived were lucky over everything else - and anything saved from that end of days event just gave them a little something to get through the relentless raiding.

Bris exclusivity well. :)
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Viviyana » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:40 pm

It really is interesting, people's different perceptions of Valorn. :) I still maintain that the knowledge for the Latin words is available IG and if a character's backstory has an education in it they can read it on some level. So really it is up to the player in my mind if they want to give their character that knowledge (and it is viable).

Now I am confused in portal spells though lol. Hasn't it always been in a Golden Aged enchantment? These new portals are in a different language as the others?
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Valya » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:38 pm

Agreed Viv. there are so many libraries in Valorn, there are certainly resources for a character to obtain knowledge of something like Latin. And the libraries in Ryn, what can be salvaged....just imagine!
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Brisingr Blaze » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:25 pm

Viviyana wrote:It really is interesting, people's different perceptions of Valorn. :) I still maintain that the knowledge for the Latin words is available IG and if a character's backstory has an education in it they can read it on some level. So really it is up to the player in my mind if they want to give their character that knowledge (and it is viable).

Now I am confused in portal spells though lol. Hasn't it always been in a Golden Aged enchantment? These new portals are in a different language as the others?


These are different in a way... in the method they're acquired. So I perceive them to be different. I think these are before... well I have my own IC ideas of them so feel free to ask.
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Re: Seeking to Form Expedition

Postby Dabria » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:58 pm

Bebhinn wrote:Must be an 'over the pond thing' being forced to study 5 years of Latin at school!


I suppose they had to find new and legal ways to torture us to make up for the fact corporal punishment is no more! Personall, I would have much preferred "six of the best" to that!

Brisingr Blaze wrote: Not to say that language was wiped out, but doesn't seem like something that would be easy. i.e pulling up goggle and getting the translation in minutes or seconds if your a walking Dab (heh).


((I can't help it. Five years of Latin in school, and then invariably, when you study music, you pick it up when you study Gregorian Chants, and the like. (We had two Latin classes a week, just to help us understand the Religious Music portion of the course!) Also, I earned a lot of money on the "church circuit" as an unattached organist (that is employed by the diocese to go 'wherever' as opposed to having a fixed church/place of worship each week), and the Novus Ordo isn't celebrated exclusively, with some congregations still preferring to use the Tridentine Rite (and even those who celebrate the Mass in English still use Latin for some responses within the service (e.g: Agnus Dei/Lamb of God).

My point is - I can't help knowing stuff! :P As you were, folks!))
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